...and don't look for the clippers to have that many turnovers again in any game of the series. That was very much out of character for them.
Memphis is the best team in the league at forcing turnovers, so it isn't too surprising, even if we are one of the best at protecting the ball. Kobe Bryant should never make all-defensive teams over Tony Allen. Conley has become a pretty good player for someone people were calling a bust way early in his career.
I don't envy VDN's choices. In one respect, Caron's performance has dropped off since the first half of the season, so he isn't a major loss. On the other hand, he plays decent defense and has playoff experience, things lacking in the other option. If I was VDN I'd take the safe route with Bobby Simmons. Gomes is out of the question. At least with Simmons you get more rebounds and fewer turnovers. But he has shot poorly. Regardless of what Nick Young did in Game 1, he is still one of the worst guards in the NBA by any measure. And he's definitely on the short bus of BBIQ. I mean he's so bad it's unbelievable. He regularly generates strings of points for opponents. That makes him too risky to start in the playoffs. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass, he gets trapped, he's a poor team defender, he's not physical, he takes the dumbest shots of anybody in the league. All the opposite of what you want in the playoffs. What he is is a bench scorer that you put in and see if he's hot, and take out if he's not. Nick said on Monday the he knows that taking double-teamed 20-foot 2-point shots is cause for criticism, but it's ok because he knows he can make them. He can't, but he knows he can, so he's going to keep doing it. Most of those end up in turnovers and many result in fast break dunks.
What's the rationale for wanting to make Nick Young the starter?
That he can score? He's one of the worst shooting SG/SFs in the league.
That he is tall? Not as a SF. And he's skinny and weak compared to most SFs.
That he can defend? Sorry*.
Wishful thinking? That he'll have more games like the last? That's probably the reason.
CP3 can make it work?**
Here's how it can work***
*J. Michael Falgoust reports "are (Cliipers) better w/Nick Young than Caron Butler starting? Not according to pts allowed: 102.9 per 48 vs. 91.4".
** I have some wishful thinking in this regard. It's that CP3 can compensate for Nicky's badness by only passing him the ball when he's wide open in the corner. Nick's pretty good at those shots. Don't let him handle the ball, don't let him "create".
*** The whole Clipper team plays major defense from here on out. More turnovers, more breaks, more open court play. This is where Nick Young can thrive.
Maybe the team can make the Nick Young thing work. In any case, the best decision that VDN can make is to give Reggie Evans as many minutes as possible. It makes no sense to me, how little he has been utilized in some of our grind-out losses. Unleash the Manimal. He is instant offense through defense.
I do cringe when a defensive rebounder outlets to Young, because he is terrible with the ball in the open court if the opponent's D is back and ready. A walking turnover. If VDN could just regulate him to the same style Butler was playing offensively (i.e. wait in the wings for a open J). Rudy Gay isn't exactly Paul Pierce so I don't see him getting abused in the post on defense.
Simmons has just been downright terrible lately (26% from FG and 3pt the last ten games). If CP3 and Blake are ultra aggressive with their shots early, then maybe the offensive output from SF won't really matter. CP has to come out firing.
Maybe there is another scenario that would work. Kmart starting at SF or something. I'd still try Young to see how it goes in Game 2 as we already know exactly what we are getting with Simmons at SF (i.e. not much). Maybe change it up Game 3 afterward. It's tough.
I hate to say it...But we are going to need some quality minutes from Gomes , with butler now down with injury... We can substitute in between Simmons, Young and Gomes. and even have K Mart in a pinch/ But we're going to need Gomes to give us some quality minutes. Gomes can play well at times.
Yep, VDN may just have to try Nick and pray. Give him strict rules of engagement and hope he remembers (he's ignored coaches so far, but if CP3 and Foye get in his grill...).
he is still one of the worst guards in the NBA by any measure.
Not really, only by WP. Not that other metrics rate him too highly, but most others rate him as useful or at least better than Simmons. The key for Young to be successful is the he needs better shot selection when playing with the starters. He can get away with jacking bad shots with the subs, because nobody else is going to score, but when Paul and Griffin are out there he needs more restraint.
JGlanton wrote:
In any case, the best decision that VDN can make is to give Reggie Evans as many minutes as possible. It makes no sense to me, how little he has been utilized in some of our grind-out losses. Unleash the Manimal. He is instant offense through defense.
Evans is not a good defender. He's short and he's slow. He's an ok post defender, but can't guard more mobile big men and he doesn't adequately contest shots in his help defense. As a team we usually play much, much better defense with him off the floor. Obviously he's a poor offensive player. He's a such a good rebounder, he's still useful in some situations despite his short comings, but he's still the weakest big in our rotation. He's a great to option to have if Martin or Jordan have having a stinker though and we need to try something different and in this series he might be more useful than usual because Memphis does use more slower, traditional post players than other teams.
hell, if he is shooting the ball well in practice then I'd give Gomes another chance over Simmons. Bobby just hasn't been cutting it, at all. Butter fingers and rim clanker. Err.
I hate to say it...But we are going to need some quality minutes from Gomes , with butler now down with injury... We can substitute in between Simmons, Young and Gomes. and even have K Mart in a pinch/ But we're going to need Gomes to give us some quality minutes. Gomes can play well at times.
Say it ain't so! Something bad happened to that dude. He used to be "servicable". Now he's a high risk.
As a team we usually play much, much better defense with him off the floor.
Can you back that up? He does lead the team in defensive rating, FWIW.
Did you see how he defended the Grizz? No Grizzard was able to get post position in the first place to be able to take decent shots. I'm not saying he can guard Dirk or Pau, because he's short and they don't need post position. But he made a mess of the Grizz interior offense. Might be worth replaying the 4th quarter.
I would start Kenyon at SF...let him rough up Rudy a bit. Gay may be able to shoot jumpers but there is no way he'll be able to post up or drive that well against Kenyon. Paul, Foye and Blake should be enough offense for the 1st unit. The second unit needs to be Young, Mo, Reggie and Bledsoe...Mo and Young can go hog wild and become the black holes they were born to be. Bottom line is we need DJ to play more minutes so Kenyon can play a chunk of minutes at SF. You want to avoid a second unit that has a combo of Kenyon, Reggie, Simmons and Bledsoe...that's just not enough offense. we tried that and it failed miserably already. Kenyon and Reggie need to be out there with Paul or Blake, or both.
Simmons and Gomes stink...there is really no point in playing them unless some of our guys are really gassed. A 9 man rotation of Paul, DJ, Blake, Reggie, Kenyon, Bledsoe, Foye, Mo and Young is enough...Vinny just needs to be smart and figure out how to use them...he probably won't though and will go with the "safe" move and start Bobby. The "stupid move would be to start Young so we can all sit back and vomit as Mo, Bledsoe, Bobby, Reggie and Kenyon score 5 points.
I would start Kenyon at SF...let him rough up Rudy a bit. Gay may be able to shoot jumpers but there is no way he'll be able to post up or drive that well against Kenyon. Paul, Foye and Blake should be enough offense for the 1st unit. The second unit needs to be Young, Mo, Reggie and Bledsoe...Mo and Young can go hog wild and become the black holes they were born to be. Bottom line is we need DJ to play more minutes so Kenyon can play a chunk of minutes at SF. You want to avoid a second unit that has a combo of Kenyon, Reggie, Simmons and Bledsoe...that's just not enough offense. we tried that and it failed miserably already. Kenyon and Reggie need to be out there with Paul or Blake, or both.
Simmons and Gomes stink...there is really no point in playing them unless some of our guys are really gassed. A 9 man rotation of Paul, DJ, Blake, Reggie, Kenyon, Bledsoe, Foye, Mo and Young is enough...Vinny just needs to be smart and figure out how to use them...he probably won't though and will go with the "safe" move and start Bobby. The "stupid move would be to start Young so we can all sit back and vomit as Mo, Bledsoe, Bobby, Reggie and Kenyon score 5 points.
Evans is not a good defender. He's short and he's slow. He's an ok post defender, but can't guard more mobile big men and he doesn't adequately contest shots in his help defense. As a team we usually play much, much better defense with him off the floor. Obviously he's a poor offensive player. He's a such a good rebounder, he's still useful in some situations despite his short comings, but he's still the weakest big in our rotation. He's a great to option to have if Martin or Jordan have having a stinker though and we need to try something different and in this series he might be more useful than usual because Memphis does use more slower, traditional post players than other teams.
I disagree, but regarless, against Grizz Evans is a good defender. He's faster than they are, even if you think he's slow compared to the league. He defended well against the way they play. At one point Randolph literally bounced off him like he had hit a brick wall, and Zach often depends on being able to back down defenders like that rather than go around them, and Evans just doesn't move. Gasol had trouble with him as well. And even his offense was far better against the kind of defense Grizz play. Every single Clippers player who commented on the game after it was over credited Evans as playing a very large role in that comeback. I'd give him much bigger minutes in this next game. For this particular matchup, he may be our best defender or second best defender.
I sure do like Evans, he is powerful and has heart...When we don't play Evans, the team doesn't play as well. We also need Bledsoe and Young to get good minutes.. With Butler down, even Simmons and yes Gomes should see playoff minutes in relationship to their effort and play. Who Knows, Gomes might end up being a big Plus for Clippers in a pinch.
I was thinking that could be an option too, but I imagine there'd be massive double teams on Blake out of the gates and then you'd just have CP. And Foye, if he can get open. Young can spread the floor shooting over fifty percent from the field the last ten games. If Simmons would just hit 40% from three this all wouldn't be a huge problem. Where's Novak? Jeez.
As a team we usually play much, much better defense with him off the floor.
Can you back that up? He does lead the team in defensive rating, FWIW.
The way individual DTRG is calculated isn't great, it just takes the teams overall defensive efficiency and makes adjustments for individual players based on blocks, steals and defensive rebounds. It doesn't make any attempt to isolate the contributions of individual players. This is why an all-time great defender like Bruce Bowen would sometimes have the worst drtg on the Spurs, as his B/S/R numbers were weak or why Kevin Love even when was young and just a dreadful defender would still have the best drtg numbers on the Wolves. It is mostly useful to compare historic players where we don't have much information, as players with B/S/R numbers on good defensive teams are usually good defenders, but obviously that doesn't always hold true.
The on/off defensive +/- numbers at 82games, keep track how much is actually scored when each player is on and off the court, the following are the differentials for each our bigs per 100 possessions: Jordan -5.2, Griffin -3.3, Martin -4.7, Evans +6.8 (and just for fun Thompkins +16, Solomon Jones +22.3, Cook +3.6). We average about 112 points per 100 possessions when Evans is out there, but only about 105 with Jordan or Martin.
I disagree, but regarless, against Grizz Evans is a good defender. He's faster than they are, even if you think he's slow compared to the league. He defended well against the way they play. At one point Randolph literally bounced off him like he had hit a brick wall, and Zach often depends on being able to back down defenders like that rather than go around them, and Evans just doesn't move. Gasol had trouble with him as well. And even his offense was far better against the kind of defense Grizz play. Every single Clippers player who commented on the game after it was over credited Evans as playing a very large role in that comeback. I'd give him much bigger minutes in this next game. For this particular matchup, he may be our best defender or second best defender.
I do agree for this matchup, he will be a better defender than usual, as Memphis relies on traditional power post play more than most teams, so Martin's mobility or Jordan's ability to challenge shots of perimeter players going to the basket won't be quite as useful.
I would have gone with Gomes to start the game and play him the 1st 4 minutes. Then bring Young to finish off the half. Same into the 2nd half.
I was thinking the exact same thing, exept considering Simmons first also, hoping he has enough size. against Gay.,, But go with who ever is on his game, with then Young off bench.
We could be alright for a while... Any one know how long Butler will be out.. Can he come back this year or is he totally out. ? I had thought and hoped, since it's only a fracture; with medication and small cast on his hand, he might return soon in limited minutes.
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Memphis is the best team in the league at forcing turnovers, so it isn't too surprising, even if we are one of the best at protecting the ball. Kobe Bryant should never make all-defensive teams over Tony Allen. Conley has become a pretty good player for someone people were calling a bust way early in his career.
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I don't envy VDN's choices. In one respect, Caron's performance has dropped off since the first half of the season, so he isn't a major loss. On the other hand, he plays decent defense and has playoff experience, things lacking in the other option. If I was VDN I'd take the safe route with Bobby Simmons. Gomes is out of the question. At least with Simmons you get more rebounds and fewer turnovers. But he has shot poorly. Regardless of what Nick Young did in Game 1, he is still one of the worst guards in the NBA by any measure. And he's definitely on the short bus of BBIQ. I mean he's so bad it's unbelievable. He regularly generates strings of points for opponents. That makes him too risky to start in the playoffs. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass, he gets trapped, he's a poor team defender, he's not physical, he takes the dumbest shots of anybody in the league. All the opposite of what you want in the playoffs. What he is is a bench scorer that you put in and see if he's hot, and take out if he's not. Nick said on Monday the he knows that taking double-teamed 20-foot 2-point shots is cause for criticism, but it's ok because he knows he can make them. He can't, but he knows he can, so he's going to keep doing it. Most of those end up in turnovers and many result in fast break dunks.
What's the rationale for wanting to make Nick Young the starter?
*J. Michael Falgoust reports "are (Cliipers) better w/Nick Young than Caron Butler starting? Not according to pts allowed: 102.9 per 48 vs. 91.4".
** I have some wishful thinking in this regard. It's that CP3 can compensate for Nicky's badness by only passing him the ball when he's wide open in the corner. Nick's pretty good at those shots. Don't let him handle the ball, don't let him "create".
*** The whole Clipper team plays major defense from here on out. More turnovers, more breaks, more open court play. This is where Nick Young can thrive.
Maybe the team can make the Nick Young thing work. In any case, the best decision that VDN can make is to give Reggie Evans as many minutes as possible. It makes no sense to me, how little he has been utilized in some of our grind-out losses. Unleash the Manimal. He is instant offense through defense.
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I do cringe when a defensive rebounder outlets to Young, because he is terrible with the ball in the open court if the opponent's D is back and ready. A walking turnover. If VDN could just regulate him to the same style Butler was playing offensively (i.e. wait in the wings for a open J). Rudy Gay isn't exactly Paul Pierce so I don't see him getting abused in the post on defense.
Simmons has just been downright terrible lately (26% from FG and 3pt the last ten games). If CP3 and Blake are ultra aggressive with their shots early, then maybe the offensive output from SF won't really matter. CP has to come out firing.
Maybe there is another scenario that would work. Kmart starting at SF or something. I'd still try Young to see how it goes in Game 2 as we already know exactly what we are getting with Simmons at SF (i.e. not much). Maybe change it up Game 3 afterward. It's tough.
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I hate to say it...But we are going to need some quality minutes from Gomes , with butler now down with injury... We can substitute in between Simmons, Young and Gomes. and even have K Mart in a pinch/ But we're going to need Gomes to give us some quality minutes. Gomes can play well at times.
to vote
Yep, VDN may just have to try Nick and pray. Give him strict rules of engagement and hope he remembers (he's ignored coaches so far, but if CP3 and Foye get in his grill...).
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Not really, only by WP. Not that other metrics rate him too highly, but most others rate him as useful or at least better than Simmons. The key for Young to be successful is the he needs better shot selection when playing with the starters. He can get away with jacking bad shots with the subs, because nobody else is going to score, but when Paul and Griffin are out there he needs more restraint.
Evans is not a good defender. He's short and he's slow. He's an ok post defender, but can't guard more mobile big men and he doesn't adequately contest shots in his help defense. As a team we usually play much, much better defense with him off the floor. Obviously he's a poor offensive player. He's a such a good rebounder, he's still useful in some situations despite his short comings, but he's still the weakest big in our rotation. He's a great to option to have if Martin or Jordan have having a stinker though and we need to try something different and in this series he might be more useful than usual because Memphis does use more slower, traditional post players than other teams.
to vote
hell, if he is shooting the ball well in practice then I'd give Gomes another chance over Simmons. Bobby just hasn't been cutting it, at all. Butter fingers and rim clanker. Err.
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Say it ain't so! Something bad happened to that dude. He used to be "servicable". Now he's a high risk.
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Can you back that up? He does lead the team in defensive rating, FWIW.
Did you see how he defended the Grizz? No Grizzard was able to get post position in the first place to be able to take decent shots. I'm not saying he can guard Dirk or Pau, because he's short and they don't need post position. But he made a mess of the Grizz interior offense. Might be worth replaying the 4th quarter.
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I would start Kenyon at SF...let him rough up Rudy a bit. Gay may be able to shoot jumpers but there is no way he'll be able to post up or drive that well against Kenyon. Paul, Foye and Blake should be enough offense for the 1st unit. The second unit needs to be Young, Mo, Reggie and Bledsoe...Mo and Young can go hog wild and become the black holes they were born to be. Bottom line is we need DJ to play more minutes so Kenyon can play a chunk of minutes at SF. You want to avoid a second unit that has a combo of Kenyon, Reggie, Simmons and Bledsoe...that's just not enough offense. we tried that and it failed miserably already. Kenyon and Reggie need to be out there with Paul or Blake, or both.
Simmons and Gomes stink...there is really no point in playing them unless some of our guys are really gassed. A 9 man rotation of Paul, DJ, Blake, Reggie, Kenyon, Bledsoe, Foye, Mo and Young is enough...Vinny just needs to be smart and figure out how to use them...he probably won't though and will go with the "safe" move and start Bobby. The "stupid move would be to start Young so we can all sit back and vomit as Mo, Bledsoe, Bobby, Reggie and Kenyon score 5 points.
to vote
I would start Kenyon at SF...let him rough up Rudy a bit. Gay may be able to shoot jumpers but there is no way he'll be able to post up or drive that well against Kenyon. Paul, Foye and Blake should be enough offense for the 1st unit. The second unit needs to be Young, Mo, Reggie and Bledsoe...Mo and Young can go hog wild and become the black holes they were born to be. Bottom line is we need DJ to play more minutes so Kenyon can play a chunk of minutes at SF. You want to avoid a second unit that has a combo of Kenyon, Reggie, Simmons and Bledsoe...that's just not enough offense. we tried that and it failed miserably already. Kenyon and Reggie need to be out there with Paul or Blake, or both.
Simmons and Gomes stink...there is really no point in playing them unless some of our guys are really gassed. A 9 man rotation of Paul, DJ, Blake, Reggie, Kenyon, Bledsoe, Foye, Mo and Young is enough...Vinny just needs to be smart and figure out how to use them...he probably won't though and will go with the "safe" move and start Bobby. The "stupid move would be to start Young so we can all sit back and vomit as Mo, Bledsoe, Bobby, Reggie and Kenyon score 5 points.
to vote
I disagree, but regarless, against Grizz Evans is a good defender. He's faster than they are, even if you think he's slow compared to the league. He defended well against the way they play. At one point Randolph literally bounced off him like he had hit a brick wall, and Zach often depends on being able to back down defenders like that rather than go around them, and Evans just doesn't move. Gasol had trouble with him as well. And even his offense was far better against the kind of defense Grizz play. Every single Clippers player who commented on the game after it was over credited Evans as playing a very large role in that comeback. I'd give him much bigger minutes in this next game. For this particular matchup, he may be our best defender or second best defender.
to vote
I sure do like Evans, he is powerful and has heart...When we don't play Evans, the team doesn't play as well. We also need Bledsoe and Young to get good minutes.. With Butler down, even Simmons and yes Gomes should see playoff minutes in relationship to their effort and play. Who Knows, Gomes might end up being a big Plus for Clippers in a pinch.
to vote
I was thinking that could be an option too, but I imagine there'd be massive double teams on Blake out of the gates and then you'd just have CP. And Foye, if he can get open. Young can spread the floor shooting over fifty percent from the field the last ten games. If Simmons would just hit 40% from three this all wouldn't be a huge problem. Where's Novak? Jeez.
to vote
The way individual DTRG is calculated isn't great, it just takes the teams overall defensive efficiency and makes adjustments for individual players based on blocks, steals and defensive rebounds. It doesn't make any attempt to isolate the contributions of individual players. This is why an all-time great defender like Bruce Bowen would sometimes have the worst drtg on the Spurs, as his B/S/R numbers were weak or why Kevin Love even when was young and just a dreadful defender would still have the best drtg numbers on the Wolves. It is mostly useful to compare historic players where we don't have much information, as players with B/S/R numbers on good defensive teams are usually good defenders, but obviously that doesn't always hold true.
The on/off defensive +/- numbers at 82games, keep track how much is actually scored when each player is on and off the court, the following are the differentials for each our bigs per 100 possessions: Jordan -5.2, Griffin -3.3, Martin -4.7, Evans +6.8 (and just for fun Thompkins +16, Solomon Jones +22.3, Cook +3.6). We average about 112 points per 100 possessions when Evans is out there, but only about 105 with Jordan or Martin.
to vote
I do agree for this matchup, he will be a better defender than usual, as Memphis relies on traditional power post play more than most teams, so Martin's mobility or Jordan's ability to challenge shots of perimeter players going to the basket won't be quite as useful.
to vote
LOoks like Nick Young will start.
I would have gone with Gomes to start the game and play him the 1st 4 minutes. Then bring Young to finish off the half. Same into the 2nd half.
to vote
I was thinking the exact same thing, exept considering Simmons first also, hoping he has enough size. against Gay.,, But go with who ever is on his game, with then Young off bench.
We could be alright for a while... Any one know how long Butler will be out.. Can he come back this year or is he totally out. ? I had thought and hoped, since it's only a fracture; with medication and small cast on his hand, he might return soon in limited minutes.
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