Should we sign Harrell? Bradley?

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#1 Jun 4, 2018 12:39pm
Mistwell
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Should we sign Harrell? Bradley?

Harrell is a restrict free agent. Bradley is a free agent. Assume we could get each for a "reasonable price" (and you decide what that means). Should we sign either? Both? Neither?

In the "re-do the 2015 draft" analysis I've see, most folks think Harrell would go at or near the top 10. For example, this one has him going 11th. I tend to agree. I think we should sign Harrell, and he should be our starting PF. 

I am torn on Bradley. 

Thoughts?

Jun 4, 2018 1:16pm
gilp5
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There is little to no chance they resign Bradley with Beverley and Austin playing the same role. Bradley was a throw-in as an expiring contract. He's gone.

They will amost certainly resign/match an offer for Harrell. 

Jun 4, 2018 2:05pm
trapp76
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We should definitely keep Harrell, winning player.

Jun 4, 2018 2:12pm
Mistwell
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gilp5 wrote:

There is little to no chance they resign Bradley with Beverley and Austin playing the same role. Bradley was a throw-in as an expiring contract. He's gone.

They will amost certainly resign/match an offer for Harrell. 

If Bradley will take the vet minimum for 1 year, and he passes a health screening test which shows he's fine, would you sign him? Would your answer change if Austin opts out and signs elsewhere?

Jun 4, 2018 2:20pm
trapp76
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Bradley for the vet min is a no brainer, cmon.

Jun 4, 2018 2:28pm
ClipperSisyphus
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Would you believe Avery Bradley was the #1 high school recruit in 2009 according to Scouts, Inc.?

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2009/order/true

Tobias was #6 in 2010 and Austin was #3 in 2011.

Jun 4, 2018 2:28pm
gpack17
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Depends on what the market is for Harrell. There's not too many teams with cap room to be able to offer him a good contract as a restricted free agent. If he signs an offer sheet around 5 mill a year, I would accept it and match for sure. I doubt there's going to be a team offering over 10 mill/year.

 

Bradley has the same circumstances. Not many teams are going to be able to offer Bradley that much money. The Clippers have Bradley's full bird rights. The best offer he would most likely get is a 1 year deal from the clippers using his bird rights and then the clippers let his contract end next year to free up room for a big 2019 free agency. 

Jun 4, 2018 2:31pm
Hitnrun24
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I would like to keep Harrell for sure. The only thing that is tricky about these deals is they are deals you'd much rather be doing after you get most of the rest of your team in place. They're the solid role players that you want to go over the cap to sign, but using cap space on longer term deals for them can hurt your flexibility.

Jun 4, 2018 2:45pm
trapp76
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gpack17 wrote:

Depends on what the market is for Harrell. There's not too many teams with cap room to be able to offer him a good contract as a restricted free agent. If he signs an offer sheet around 5 mill a year, I would accept it and match for sure. I doubt there's going to be a team offering over 10 mill/year.

 

Bradley has the same circumstances. Not many teams are going to be able to offer Bradley that much money. The Clippers have Bradley's full bird rights. The best offer he would most likely get is a 1 year deal from the clippers using his bird rights and then the clippers let his contract end next year to free up room for a big 2019 free agency. 

Yeah I could see us doing a JJ Redick type deal with him. larger money figure but only for 1 year. We can go over the cap to do it so it would be easy. He would benefit too as he could use it as a prove it type deal to stay healthy and get a longer term contract next off-season from us or someone else. I think we would lose his bird rights for 2019 if we did that though.

Jun 4, 2018 3:27pm
V-Ice
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No brainer in keeping both. Jr will be dealt.
Jun 4, 2018 4:01pm
gilp5
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Mistwell wrote:

gilp5 wrote:

There is little to no chance they resign Bradley with Beverley and Austin playing the same role. Bradley was a throw-in as an expiring contract. He's gone.

They will amost certainly resign/match an offer for Harrell. 

If Bradley will take the vet minimum for 1 year, and he passes a health screening test which shows he's fine, would you sign him? Would your answer change if Austin opts out and signs elsewhere?

Sure. I'd also take Lebron for the vet min too. And Austin will not opt out because nobody will pay him anything close to his current salary.

Jun 4, 2018 7:38pm
WindsorUK
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Both guys make us better.

Keep them both.

Jun 4, 2018 7:59pm
pro100
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Re-sign Harrell and let Bradley walk

Jun 4, 2018 9:38pm
Mistwell
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gilp5 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

gilp5 wrote:

There is little to no chance they resign Bradley with Beverley and Austin playing the same role. Bradley was a throw-in as an expiring contract. He's gone.

They will amost certainly resign/match an offer for Harrell. 

If Bradley will take the vet minimum for 1 year, and he passes a health screening test which shows he's fine, would you sign him? Would your answer change if Austin opts out and signs elsewhere?

Sure. I'd also take Lebron for the vet min too. And Austin will not opt out because nobody will pay him anything close to his current salary.

I was obviously going to the extrme on Bradley. I am trying to figure out where people's lines are on Bradley.  So would you take him for the vet min if Austin does not leave? Would you take him for over the Vet Min but under the MLE?

Jun 4, 2018 10:48pm
JGlanton
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Replacing Austin with Avery at 2/3 the price would be GM Genius.

Keeping Austin and a vetmin Avery would be pretty amazing.  In that we have someone to take real minutes from Austin.  

The team has to protect itself. Austin is just one awkward layup from going down.

Jun 4, 2018 10:59pm
babyradar01
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No brainer we match on Harrell. as for bradley we should try to resign him on a solid deal...and then trade him at the deadline for an expiring plus a pick. if jr opts out we should for sure sign him. one way or another bradley, milos and jr will be off the team by seasons end. i think jerry is gonna go sexton amd walker in the draft. two guys who can be good offensively and really good defensively
Jun 4, 2018 11:02pm
gilp5
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Mistwell wrote:

gilp5 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

gilp5 wrote:

There is little to no chance they resign Bradley with Beverley and Austin playing the same role. Bradley was a throw-in as an expiring contract. He's gone.

They will amost certainly resign/match an offer for Harrell. 

If Bradley will take the vet minimum for 1 year, and he passes a health screening test which shows he's fine, would you sign him? Would your answer change if Austin opts out and signs elsewhere?

Sure. I'd also take Lebron for the vet min too. And Austin will not opt out because nobody will pay him anything close to his current salary.

I was obviously going to the extrme on Bradley. I am trying to figure out where people's lines are on Bradley.  So would you take him for the vet min if Austin does not leave? Would you take him for over the Vet Min but under the MLE?

Sure a small contract why not? But anything close to his current salary would be a bad decision.

Jun 5, 2018 12:00am
Dyce
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The MLE is close to 8 million and Harrel will for sure get offers of at least that.  I would match it of course.  Now if it gets to 10-12 million I don't know about that.

I like Bradley, but I don't see him coming back for cheap.  A lot of contenders could use a guy like him.  I could see us just letting him walk.  Especially if we draft a guard.

Jun 5, 2018 9:12am
gilp5
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Dyce wrote:

The MLE is close to 8 million and Harrel will for sure get offers of at least that.  I would match it of course.  Now if it gets to 10-12 million I don't know about that.

I like Bradley, but I don't see him coming back for cheap.  A lot of contenders could use a guy like him.  I could see us just letting him walk.  Especially if we draft a guard.

+1 - I agree with this. 

Jun 5, 2018 9:34am
JGlanton
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Dyce wrote:

The MLE is close to 8 million and Harrel will for sure get offers of at least that.  I would match it of course.  Now if it gets to 10-12 million I don't know about that.

I like Bradley, but I don't see him coming back for cheap.  A lot of contenders could use a guy like him.  I could see us just letting him walk.  Especially if we draft a guard.

 

Perhaps contenders won't be able to sign him for what he wants either.  We have his bird rights and perhaps they'll have to negotiate a trade.

It's hard to tell whether teams will see him as the good player he was over the previous couple of seasons in Boston, or the player who struggled in DET and needs to prove himself again. Or something in between. I'm guessing he's going to have to settle for a short-term contract in the MLE range, but he won't be signing for the vet min at this stage in his career just to be on a contender.

Jun 5, 2018 9:57am
JGlanton
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The Spurs can offer Avery the $4.4M MLE,   OKC can offer $8.6M MLE,  NOP can offer $5.3M MLE.  Sixers can offer anything,  maybe Jazz (but he wouldn't start).   After that his choices are going to a lower tier team to get money, if they even want a veteran starter.

The Clips should consider trying to keep him for something in that price range, but only if they can't find anything better.  But they're being cockblocked by Austin.  

Jun 5, 2018 10:00am
JGlanton
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Is anybody asking whether Teodosic will pick up his player option?

I wouldn't mind if he doesn't come back, mostly because I want to see the team stacked with more robust players in terms of injuries. 

Jun 5, 2018 11:49am
Hitnrun24
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Milos has a mutual option rigjt? So basically both team and player would have to agree. I think it makes some sense for both sides. I don't think he'd really get more on the market unless he wants a longer term deal and for us it is only one year so it keeps us flexible for 2019. I'm pretty ambivalent as to whether he does or doesn't and would be cool with us waiting to see how other pieces shake out before deciding.

Jun 5, 2018 11:51am
Hitnrun24
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JGlanton wrote:

The Spurs can offer Avery the $4.4M MLE,   OKC can offer $8.6M MLE,  NOP can offer $5.3M MLE.  Sixers can offer anything,  maybe Jazz (but he wouldn't start).   After that his choices are going to a lower tier team to get money, if they even want a veteran starter.

The Clips should consider trying to keep him for something in that price range, but only if they can't find anything better.  But they're being cockblocked by Austin.  

 

Why are the MLE's different? Anyways I think he makes a ton of sense for OKC and if he were healthy thought they should have traded for him.

Jun 5, 2018 12:29pm
JGlanton
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Different MLE levels are set for teams under the cap, over the cap, and taxpayers. The higher you roll, the spender you get.
Jun 5, 2018 12:37pm
Hitnrun24
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I thought under the cap teams don't get an MLE

Jun 5, 2018 12:43pm
JGlanton
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I'd be impressed if our FO can get rid of one piece of our dead wood and give us roster room to get a better player.  Austin, Wes, Gallo.  Dekker can go. 

If we got rid of Austin or Wes,   and signed Tyreke Evans or Avery, we'd be nicely upgraded. 

 

Jun 5, 2018 1:35pm
babyradar01
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Hitnrun24 wrote:

Milos has a mutual option rigjt? So basically both team and player would have to agree. I think it makes some sense for both sides. I don't think he'd really get more on the market unless he wants a longer term deal and for us it is only one year so it keeps us flexible for 2019. I'm pretty ambivalent as to whether he does or doesn't and would be cool with us waiting to see how other pieces shake out before deciding.

If Milos picks up his option the Clips can still cut him and save 4.2 million, although we would stll be stuck with his cap hit of 6.3 million

Jun 5, 2018 3:27pm
trapp76
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Hitnrun24 wrote:

I thought under the cap teams don't get an MLE

I didn't think they did either.

Jun 5, 2018 4:06pm
nuraman00
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Before I answer the Bradley questions, how many years do you think he'll get?

 

GMs usually give longer deals than I think they will.

Jun 5, 2018 5:43pm
JGlanton
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trapp76 wrote:

Hitnrun24 wrote:

I thought under the cap teams don't get an MLE

I didn't think they did either.

 

NBA Salary Cap History

  Mid-Level Exception
Season Salary Cap Luxury Tax BAE Standard /
Non-Taxpayer
Taxpayer Team Room /
Under Cap
2025-2026 $144,731,000 $175,553,000 $4,805,000 $12,278,000 $7,584,000 $6,322,000
2024-2025 $137,839,000 $167,193,000 $4,576,000 $11,693,000 $7,223,000 $6,021,000
2023-2024 $131,275,000 $159,231,000 $4,358,000 $11,136,000 $6,879,000 $5,734,000
2022-2023 $125,024,000 $151,649,000 $4,150,000 $10,606,000 $6,551,000 $5,461,000
2021-2022 $119,070,000 $144,428,000 $3,952,000 $10,101,000 $6,239,000 $5,201,000
2020-2021 $113,400,000 $137,550,000 $3,764,000 $9,620,000 $5,942,000 $4,953,000
2019-2020 $108,000,000 $131,000,000 $3,585,000 $9,162,000 $5,659,000 $4,717,000
2018-2019 $101,000,000 $123,000,000 $3,353,000 $8,568,000 $5,292,000 $4,411,000

 

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

Jun 5, 2018 6:12pm
JGlanton
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nuraman00 wrote:

Before I answer the Bradley questions, how many years do you think he'll get?

 

GMs usually give longer deals than I think they will.

His abdominal injury lowered his performance last season, but I don't think teams will worry that he's a long term injury risk or won't return to form.  He's still young and it's not like he tore an ACL. So he's pretty low risk as far as health of an previously injured player goes.  He's a better long-term risk than CP3, LOL.

I think someone will offer 4 years, someone else 3 for more salary, depending on how much they have. Someone else might even offer a 1-year big number to keep cap space open next year.

It's really hard to predict because there isn't a lot of free money and it may be hard to  match what he wants for a contract, where he wants to play, with a team that can pay him and their capspace issues over the next 4 years.  And it will depend on what happens first with guys like Paul George, Danny Green, etc.  What seat will be open when his number gets called is hard to call this early.

Maybe the seats will all be taken and he stays.  Small chance. Maybe he takes part in a S&T. That could be great for the Clips.   Avery + Pick 12 for ???  Paul George :-)

Jun 6, 2018 12:04pm
Hitnrun24
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Bradley has great value in the playoffs so any contending team should want him since he's a guy who will not be played off the floor. There isn't a ton of money especially on those type of teams so he may end up at the MLE. 

Jun 6, 2018 12:18pm
trapp76
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The fact that there isn't a lot of money available on the market combined with the fact that teams think he would be worth a decent amount of money opens up a good possibility for us to get something back for him in a sign and trade if we don't want him back.

We still haven't really seen the final return from the Blake trade. I think we can still turn Harris/Bradley/Boban/12th pick into even more assets before it's all said and done, making that trade look even better than it already does.

Jun 6, 2018 1:12pm
gpack17
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If we sign Bradley to a 1 year prove it type deal, we will have Bradley and Harris both as deadline moveable assets. Also, Lou's contract is very valuable to contending teams also. Those guys can help bring in some pretty good draft picks to put along side a lot of cap space after next season. 

Jun 6, 2018 1:17pm
ClipperSisyphus
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gpack17 wrote:

If we sign Bradley to a 1 year prove it type deal, we will have Bradley and Harris both as deadline moveable assets. Also, Lou's contract is very valuable to contending teams also. Those guys can help bring in some pretty good draft picks to put along side a lot of cap space after next season. 

Lou signed a below market 3 year deal because his kids like LA and he wanted to stay in one place. If the team has any integrity, I don't see them trading him. He is the newer/younger Jamal off-the-bench sparkplug.

Jun 6, 2018 2:28pm
gpack17
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I wouldn't expect to trade Lou because it is definitely a very team friendly deal. I just mentioned him in there because he is a very valuable player and could be for a team making a run. For only 8 mill/year. I would prefer to keep him until he's done.

Jun 6, 2018 4:14pm
Mistwell
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gpack17 wrote:

If we sign Bradley to a 1 year prove it type deal, we will have Bradley and Harris both as deadline moveable assets. Also, Lou's contract is very valuable to contending teams also. Those guys can help bring in some pretty good draft picks to put along side a lot of cap space after next season. 

That would be gross if we did that. I want Harris and Lou long term on reasonable contracts.  They are what draft picks become after many years of training on an NBA team to make it in the NBA.

Jun 6, 2018 4:32pm
babyradar01
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I'm pretty sure we want to keep Harris.  Lou and Milos will be trade at the deadline for sure..those wo are perfect for deals to contenders.  Vets who offer savvy experience with great scoring (Lou) and a perfect PG to run a team's second unit (Milos)...both on very good contracts.  Trust that Jerry will be doing all he can to trade Lou and Milos for younger players/picks.  Chances are we sign Avery with the thought of trading him as well.   I could see us keeping Avery though if Jerry doesn't think Wallace, Thornwell or Evans have not shown enough by February.

Jun 6, 2018 5:09pm
Hitnrun24
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I don't think Milos would be attractive to a contender. Can you imagine him being run through screens to guard Curry/Harden/Paul? Maybe he survives in the East a little while, but he'd be dead in the Finals. Out of the guards I maintain that Lou, Beverley, Bradley and even austin could play for anyone in some role.

Jun 6, 2018 6:41pm
Mistwell
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babyradar01 wrote:
I'm pretty sure we want to keep Harris.  Lou and Milos will be trade at the deadline for sure..those wo are perfect for deals to contenders.

 

And I feel highly confident you are wrong on Lou.

 

Jun 6, 2018 9:03pm
gilp5
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Mistwell wrote:

babyradar01 wrote:
I'm pretty sure we want to keep Harris.  Lou and Milos will be trade at the deadline for sure..those wo are perfect for deals to contenders.

 

And I feel highly confident you are wrong on Lou.

 

Yeah he's wrong about Lou. They aren't trading him.

Jun 7, 2018 8:43am
trapp76
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They can trade anyone at any time. Nobody on this team is untouchable and that's how it should be. We aren't a championship contender.

Jun 7, 2018 10:52am
Mistwell
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Of course they "can" trade anyone. I am not saying Lou is untradeable. I am saying barring some incredible amazing trade opportunity, they will not be trading Lou. For example, I think the team views Lou and his current low contract as more valuable than most draft picks, other than a top three pick. 

Jun 7, 2018 1:41pm
babyradar01
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Mistwell wrote:

babyradar01 wrote:
I'm pretty sure we want to keep Harris.  Lou and Milos will be trade at the deadline for sure..those wo are perfect for deals to contenders.

 

And I feel highly confident you are wrong on Lou.

 

  That's what you said back in July 2015 with DJ.  Jerry isn' stupid, unlike some here. He knows there is no way we have any hope against the Warriors and Houston next year.  He will shop Lou just like he shopped DJ and Lou last year.  True, Lou may not be traded, but that's likely more likely due to the offers we get. 

Jun 7, 2018 2:15pm
Mistwell
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babyradar01 wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

babyradar01 wrote:
I'm pretty sure we want to keep Harris.  Lou and Milos will be trade at the deadline for sure..those wo are perfect for deals to contenders.

 

And I feel highly confident you are wrong on Lou.

 

  That's what you said back in July 2015 with DJ.  Jerry isn' stupid, unlike some here. He knows there is no way we have any hope against the Warriors and Houston next year.  He will shop Lou just like he shopped DJ and Lou last year.  True, Lou may not be traded, but that's likely more likely due to the offers we get. 



You mean, the year we signed DJ? LOL. 

 

Jerry is the one that signed Lou to this record low contract. Of course he's not stupid - he got us a team leader on the cheap. It's what he does. He always has a single vet to lead the team, in the beginning of his rebuilds. Lou is that guy. I bet you we don't shop Lou unless some superstar is involved. We shall see. 

Jun 7, 2018 3:21pm
trapp76
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The front office did the same thing with Lou that they did with Blake. They had a good asset and they didn't let it get away for nothing. 

He may not fit into the plans of a rebuilding team but losing him for nothing would have been dumb. The trade offers probably weren't there, so next best thing was to sign him and keep him in case we want to move him later. Also, don't forget the lesson from the Blake situation...........players signed for multiple years are worth much more on the trade market than players who are going into free agency the following season. Lou's trade value will be higher this season than it was last season because of that.

Jun 7, 2018 8:51pm
babyradar01
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trapp76 wrote:

The front office did the same thing with Lou that they did with Blake. They had a good asset and they didn't let it get away for nothing. 

He may not fit into the plans of a rebuilding team but losing him for nothing would have been dumb. The trade offers probably weren't there, so next best thing was to sign him and keep him in case we want to move him later. Also, don't forget the lesson from the Blake situation...........players signed for multiple years are worth much more on the trade market than players who are going into free agency the following season. Lou's trade value will be higher this season than it was last season because of that.

Exactly. No question we shop Lou. The same reasoning applies to Bradley. my guess is we sign wallace for 3 yrs, sign bradley for 3yrs, pick up beverly option and maybe even just renegotiate a new 3yr deal, trade lou, bradley and milos at the deadline and let JR walk next summer. then we roll with beverly, sexton or shai, and evans at PG and lonnie walker, wallace and sin at SG. wallace and sin can get some mins at SF as well. hopefully the trades we make get us a solid SF to play we tobias.