Don't expect much this offseason

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#1 Jun 4, 2018 9:31am
gpack17
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Don't expect much this offseason

The more that I look at this offseason and what Jerry West has done in the past, i've realized not to expect much this offseason. If what they are trying to do is create cap room and build through the draft much like the warriors did, then I see a couple of things happening. 

 

For the draft picks, I would expect them to keep both picks, unless, there is someone they must have and they move up for them. Or the only other option that I can see is to package one of them to get rid of Gallo's contract. After this next season, Gallo is the only sizeable contract still on the books. Lou has a great contract keeping him cheap. Other than that, we will have mostly rookie deal players and a lot of cap room with Tobias, Bobi, etc all expiring. If we can find a way to get rid of Gallo's contract, it could leave us with close to enough room to sign 2 max level players to build around the rookie deals that we have in place. 

 

Jerry West has a plan. It will take a  little bit of time. But I would expect that the biggest decisions they will make is through the draft and whoever they sign for the MLE. 

Jun 4, 2018 9:42am
ClipperSisyphus
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With 2 rookies joining the team, what do we do with Jawun and Thornwell? Do they move up the roster to second string?

Jun 4, 2018 10:09am
babyradar01
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gpack17 wrote:
   There is no way we package a pick to simply rid ouselves of Gallo's contract. That would be stupid and Jerry is not stupid.  That would be somthing Doc would do.  He has 2 years left and has no impact on our ability to sign a max player in 2019.  The most feasiblthingt o is hol on to him andsee if we can move him in a fair dceal at the trade deadline. And play him less minutes. Gallo should be at 23-24 minutes per gm. His body cannot handle more

Jun 4, 2018 10:28am
Clipps
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babyradar01 wrote:

gpack17 wrote:
   There is no way we package a pick to simply rid ouselves of Gallo's contract. That would be stupid and Jerry is not stupid.  That would be somthing Doc would do.  He has 2 years left and has no impact on our ability to sign a max player in 2019.  The most feasiblthingt o is hol on to him andsee if we can move him in a fair dceal at the trade deadline. And play him less minutes. Gallo should be at 23-24 minutes per gm. His body cannot handle more

Doc would trade both picks to get rid of Gallo's contract and then sign Leon Powe with the MLE.

Jun 4, 2018 10:30am
gpack17
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@clippersisyphus: They are non gauranteed contracts so they could be cut. However, unless a player at 12 or 13 is thattttt much better than either one of them, I don't see how or why they would draft players at those positions. The only 2 PG's that I can see as clear cut better than Evans is Sexton and Young. At SG, is Zhaire Smith or Lonnie Walker thatttt much better than Thornwell? I don't think so, but who knows what they think about it. They still have depth at the wing depending on what happens this offseason. Even if you take out Austin, Bradley, Milos, we still have Beverly, Evans, Lou Will, Thornwell, CJ Williams. Although it's not great talent wise, its still depth.

 

@babyradar01: I wouldn't expect it. It is an option however. Gallo, can't stay healthy. It's been a trend his whole career. He is awesome when healthy. But is that something that we are willing to bet on. You can't be paying a guy $21 million a year to only be playing half of the game. That's how salary room is wasted. Look at how valuable Lou Will's contract is and at his minutes. Sure it doesn't impact our ability to sign a max player in 2019, but it doesn impact us from getting possibly 2 max players. 

Jun 4, 2018 11:13am
V-Ice
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I just don’t see Ballmer and West being 2nd fiddle to the Lakers once again. But will see.
Jun 4, 2018 12:05pm
Hitnrun24
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If Doncic does indeed slip like some are speculating I would trade the 2 picks and some other things to move up for him. I don't really believe this though so it's probably not something we can pull off. After him if there isn't a guy we aren't pretty confident in being a game changing player in the workouts then I'd be fine just keeping the  picks and taking 2 cracks at hitting big on.

 

The only other guy I can see them feeling that way about would be Porter, but he has a lot of questions to answer since there is so little tape of him against high caliber players. He really could go anywhere between picks 5-12 so there's even a small chance we'd be able to get him and someone else.

Jun 4, 2018 12:34pm
trapp76
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DJ is going to be the biggest story/decision of our off-season.

If we move our first round picks, we most likely do it in some type of trade for an opted in DJ. Similar to the CP trade last off-season.

 

Jun 4, 2018 1:19pm
V-Ice
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Just imagine the lobs that Dj would get if he had gone to Cleveland. Bron to Dj?? And more open looks as well.
Jun 4, 2018 1:30pm
ClipperSisyphus
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V-Ice wrote:
Just imagine the lobs that Dj would get if he had gone to Cleveland. Bron to Dj?? And more open looks as well.

I was going to start a new thread on this topic. If you are LeBron, imagine being on a team with DJ, Tobias and Lou Williams plus the other pieces we have. That team would put up a better fight against the Warriors.

Jun 4, 2018 2:18pm
trapp76
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

V-Ice wrote:
Just imagine the lobs that Dj would get if he had gone to Cleveland. Bron to Dj?? And more open looks as well.

I was going to start a new thread on this topic. If you are LeBron, imagine being on a team with DJ, Tobias and Lou Williams 

If he can stay healthy (a big if) Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Harris, DJ, Boban, Milos + 12/13 picks would be a much better supporting cast than Lebron has in CLE right now. All of those guys aside from Milos don't really need the ball in their hands to contribute and would be great complimentary players to someone like Lebron.

I don't mention Gallo or Austin because I'd get rid of both of them to fit Lebron's salary in.

If we had that supporting cast around CP in 2016 instead of loser/flake Blake and chuckin Jamal/Austin we would've been in the WCF like CP's Rockets team was this year.

Jun 4, 2018 2:19pm
Hitnrun24
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Cleveland chose to take on Clarkson and Nance instead of DJ, which must be killing Lebron now. I can't believe people thought that was a good trade at the time. I get that Nance is decent, but Clarkson at that salary should cost huge assets to dump. Cavs should have gotten the pick in that deal

Jun 4, 2018 2:25pm
gpack17
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It's a big if, and in no way would I come close to expecting this. But you gotta think that a player of Lebron's caliber can choose wherever he wants to go and that team will do anything to get him. If he says he wants to be a clipper, i can guarantee that they will ship out danillo and 3 future 1sts to get him (a bit of an exaggeration, but you know what i mean). Teams will find a way to get him. But have to think a core of Beverly, Lou, Harrell, Harris, DJ is pretty strong. 

Jun 5, 2018 9:48am
trapp76
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One of the things I liked so much about the way the new front office handled the Blake situation is that they viewed him as an asset instead of viewing him through the prism of "he is only a value at X amount and not higher than that". They knew that even though they were over paying him, it is better to over pay and hold onto the asset rather than let the asset walk and get zero back in return. Getting something for him was better than getting nothing.

I am hoping they end up viewing DJ in the same manner. Some team is going to offer him big money, probably more money than he is worth or that we want to pay him, but it would most likely be better for us to keep him as an asset even on an overpaid deal, than let him leave for nothing.

The only outcome I'd like to avoid in the DJ situation is having him sign with someone else and having us get nothing in return. If we trade him and he opts in, that's fine, if he simply just opts in and we keep him for one more year, that's also fine. If we sign him to a big contract that is worth more than we should give him, that's actually also fine. As long as he doesn't leave while we get nothing back. That is the one situation I would like to see avoided. 

So far, the new front office has not allowed that to happen with any of our more valuable players. That will be the most interesting situation to watch for us this off-season.

Jun 6, 2018 8:55am
babyradar01
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trapp76 wrote:

DJ is going to be the biggest story/decision of our off-season.

If we move our first round picks, we most likely do it in some type of trade for an opted in DJ. Similar to the CP trade last off-season.

 

Well that's exactly how I predcict  we will be getting Kawhi this summer

Jun 6, 2018 9:12am
tullabye
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trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

V-Ice wrote:
Just imagine the lobs that Dj would get if he had gone to Cleveland. Bron to Dj?? And more open looks as well.

I was going to start a new thread on this topic. If you are LeBron, imagine being on a team with DJ, Tobias and Lou Williams 

If he can stay healthy (a big if) Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Harris, DJ, Boban, Milos + 12/13 picks would be a much better supporting cast than Lebron has in CLE right now. All of those guys aside from Milos don't really need the ball in their hands to contribute and would be great complimentary players to someone like Lebron.

I don't mention Gallo or Austin because I'd get rid of both of them to fit Lebron's salary in.

If we had that supporting cast around CP in 2016 instead of loser/flake Blake and chuckin Jamal/Austin we would've been in the WCF like CP's Rockets team was this year.

Problem is we acquired many of those assets from the CP trade. As much as you love CP it was and is Harden’s Rockets and they likely would have made the conference finals with the assets that they traded for Paul and actually may have been better off. They might have been playing the Cavs with Lou and Harrel.
Jun 6, 2018 9:25am
Clippers1121
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Lou and Harrel would not have seen much court time against the Warriors.  Not good enough to play defense in the Rockets "switch everything" scheme.  They proved that it is better to have one good defensive player like CP3 than it is to have several players who are good on offense but not good enough to play defense at the elite level necessary in the playoffs.  You need two way players to beat the elite teams.  Saying Teo, Lou, Harrell, is attractive to Lebron is kind of ridiculous since they would not even be on the court in a competitive game against the Warriors.  The reason we never won was because we had guys like Crawford, Austin, and Redick who were not good enough on defense to get us past the second round.  Long defensive two way wings is the way to go.  And we need to get these kinds of guys through the draft.

Jun 6, 2018 9:56am
trapp76
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tullabye wrote:
trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

V-Ice wrote:
Just imagine the lobs that Dj would get if he had gone to Cleveland. Bron to Dj?? And more open looks as well.

I was going to start a new thread on this topic. If you are LeBron, imagine being on a team with DJ, Tobias and Lou Williams 

If he can stay healthy (a big if) Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Harris, DJ, Boban, Milos + 12/13 picks would be a much better supporting cast than Lebron has in CLE right now. All of those guys aside from Milos don't really need the ball in their hands to contribute and would be great complimentary players to someone like Lebron.

I don't mention Gallo or Austin because I'd get rid of both of them to fit Lebron's salary in.

If we had that supporting cast around CP in 2016 instead of loser/flake Blake and chuckin Jamal/Austin we would've been in the WCF like CP's Rockets team was this year.

Problem is we acquired many of those assets from the CP trade. As much as you love CP it was and is Harden’s Rockets and they likely would have made the conference finals with the assets that they traded for Paul and actually may have been better off. They might have been playing the Cavs with Lou and Harrel.

The Rockets would have been better off without CP and would be playing in the finals right now without him?

Let me borrow some of that chronic brotha!!!

Jun 6, 2018 10:09am
mannycoon
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Harrell didnt make the Rockets playoff rotation last year and for the most part Nene and Black who are similar players didnt this year. Much improved defense was a big part of the Rockets improvement this year, and Paul was a big part of that, both because of his ability to defend and his ability to create offense even with very limited offensive players like Tucker or Luc on the floor.
Jun 6, 2018 10:51am
VFHS
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trapp76 wrote:

One of the things I liked so much about the way the new front office handled the Blake situation is that they viewed him as an asset instead of viewing him through the prism of "he is only a value at X amount and not higher than that". They knew that even though they were over paying him, it is better to over pay and hold onto the asset rather than let the asset walk and get zero back in return. Getting something for him was better than getting nothing.

I am hoping they end up viewing DJ in the same manner. Some team is going to offer him big money, probably more money than he is worth or that we want to pay him, but it would most likely be better for us to keep him as an asset even on an overpaid deal, than let him leave for nothing.

The only outcome I'd like to avoid in the DJ situation is having him sign with someone else and having us get nothing in return. If we trade him and he opts in, that's fine, if he simply just opts in and we keep him for one more year, that's also fine. If we sign him to a big contract that is worth more than we should give him, that's actually also fine. As long as he doesn't leave while we get nothing back. That is the one situation I would like to see avoided. 

So far, the new front office has not allowed that to happen with any of our more valuable players. That will be the most interesting situation to watch for us this off-season.

Here's the problem with this argument: overpaying a player can easily make them untradeable without taking back equally bad contracts/giving up more assets (such as draft picks). It's not as simple as "trade asset vs. lose for nothing." You still can't give tons of money to undeserving players and expect it to work out.

As far as DJ is concerned, the consensus seems to be that there's no real market for his services in free agency this summer. Furthermore, it proved impossible to trade DJ at the deadline this season on his current contract. I fail to see how paying him even more money will somehow make him a more appealing trade asset that another team will give us a good package in return for him. DJ is who he is: an outdated player with a limited skill set who isn't a great fit for the modern NBA.

Jun 6, 2018 12:00pm
Hitnrun24
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I think Lou could have played against the Warriors and he would have actually been very valuable once Paul went out. He's a real scorer and can score against good defense unlike some of these other so called 6th man types who come in and shit themselves.

 

Obviously they would have been better off with those guys in games 6 and 7 against the Warriors than no Paul, but I don't think they'd have been up 3-2 in that series with them instead of Paul. If Luc had played like he did for us last year that would have helped them quite a bit too, they got buried in those 2nd half Ryan Anderson minutes.

Jun 6, 2018 12:09pm
trapp76
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VFHS wrote:
trapp76 wrote:

One of the things I liked so much about the way the new front office handled the Blake situation is that they viewed him as an asset instead of viewing him through the prism of "he is only a value at X amount and not higher than that". They knew that even though they were over paying him, it is better to over pay and hold onto the asset rather than let the asset walk and get zero back in return. Getting something for him was better than getting nothing.

I am hoping they end up viewing DJ in the same manner. Some team is going to offer him big money, probably more money than he is worth or that we want to pay him, but it would most likely be better for us to keep him as an asset even on an overpaid deal, than let him leave for nothing.

The only outcome I'd like to avoid in the DJ situation is having him sign with someone else and having us get nothing in return. If we trade him and he opts in, that's fine, if he simply just opts in and we keep him for one more year, that's also fine. If we sign him to a big contract that is worth more than we should give him, that's actually also fine. As long as he doesn't leave while we get nothing back. That is the one situation I would like to see avoided. 

So far, the new front office has not allowed that to happen with any of our more valuable players. That will be the most interesting situation to watch for us this off-season.

Here's the problem with this argument: overpaying a player can easily make them untradeable without taking back equally bad contracts/giving up more assets (such as draft picks). It's not as simple as "trade asset vs. lose for nothing." You still can't give tons of money to undeserving players and expect it to work out.

As far as DJ is concerned, the consensus seems to be that there's no real market for his services in free agency this summer. Furthermore, it proved impossible to trade DJ at the deadline this season on his current contract. I fail to see how paying him even more money will somehow make him a more appealing trade asset that another team will give us a good package in return for him. DJ is who he is: an outdated player with a limited skill set who isn't a great fit for the modern NBA.

It was hard to trade him precisely because he WAS NOT SIGNED past the end of the season. If Blake were on a one year deal for example, no way the Pistons would have been suckered into making that trade for him.

Of course this argument doesn't apply to any scrub player, you don't just give any player whatever he wants as opposed to losing them for nothing. The argument applies to players who are clearly upper level assets and could command big money on the market (max or not).

Jun 6, 2018 1:19pm
tullabye
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trapp76 wrote:

tullabye wrote:
trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

V-Ice wrote:
Just imagine the lobs that Dj would get if he had gone to Cleveland. Bron to Dj?? And more open looks as well.

I was going to start a new thread on this topic. If you are LeBron, imagine being on a team with DJ, Tobias and Lou Williams 

If he can stay healthy (a big if) Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Harris, DJ, Boban, Milos + 12/13 picks would be a much better supporting cast than Lebron has in CLE right now. All of those guys aside from Milos don't really need the ball in their hands to contribute and would be great complimentary players to someone like Lebron.

I don't mention Gallo or Austin because I'd get rid of both of them to fit Lebron's salary in.

If we had that supporting cast around CP in 2016 instead of loser/flake Blake and chuckin Jamal/Austin we would've been in the WCF like CP's Rockets team was this year.

Problem is we acquired many of those assets from the CP trade. As much as you love CP it was and is Harden’s Rockets and they likely would have made the conference finals with the assets that they traded for Paul and actually may have been better off. They might have been playing the Cavs with Lou and Harrel.

The Rockets would have been better off without CP and would be playing in the finals right now without him?

Let me borrow some of that chronic brotha!!!

Think about it. San Antonio was not a factor this year, so with or without CP they were easily the second best team in the West and would have likely been playing GS anyway. CP got hurt yet again and it washed any real hope away. A healthy Lou and Montez might have carried them thru but either way they would have been in the conference finals.
Jun 6, 2018 1:23pm
tullabye
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mannycoon wrote:
Harrell didnt make the Rockets playoff rotation last year and for the most part Nene and Black who are similar players didnt this year. Much improved defense was a big part of the Rockets improvement this year, and Paul was a big part of that, both because of his ability to defend and his ability to create offense even with very limited offensive players like Tucker or Luc on the floor.
Harrell would have definitely made it this year. He’s better than any big that the Rockets have not named Capella. He’s turned out to be a total stud and a good defensive player as well. Lou was obviously misused and could have been fantastic for them.
Jun 6, 2018 5:15pm
Hitnrun24
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Yeah I can't see how Harrell wouldn't be in the rotation even for at least 12 minutes this year with the level his game got to. He's made himself into too good a player to be played off the court.

Jun 7, 2018 8:48am
trapp76
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They could have possibly made it to the WCF without CP, but they get swept and blown out when they get there, just like they did last season.

 

Jun 7, 2018 9:16am
Clippers1121
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Last year they lost to the Spurs in the semifinals.  They were locked in to beat the Warriors this year as Mr. Lowe noted on the ESPN web site.  Everything they had went into beating the Warriors with their switching defense.  Not sure the Rockets are capable of putting that much effort into winning next year.  And the Warriors are going to be much more prepared for them next season.  And CP isn't getting any younger or any healthier as the years go by.  His 14th season coming up.  Rockets should make a play for Lebron this summer.  If they lose CP3 in the process then they still have a better chance of beating the Warriors than they do with their current team.