Dekker vs. Thornwell vs. CJ Williams

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Jul 11, 2018 1:33pm
trapp76
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: Oct 28, 2011

Dekker vs. Thornwell vs. CJ Williams

We can only keep one if we bring back Harrell. Which one should we keep?

Williams is 28, Dekker is 24 and Thornwell is 23.

Jul 11, 2018 1:49pm
V-Ice
Offline
Last seen: 55 min 25 sec ago
Joined: Nov 27, 2011

Thornwell bc of defense 

Jul 11, 2018 1:58pm
tullabye
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 46 min ago
Joined: Nov 11, 2011

Williams is a dead duck. I’d keep Dekker. We have too many guards and I think Dekker has more upside. 

Jul 11, 2018 2:19pm
nuraman00
Offline
Last seen: 31 min 11 sec ago
Joined: Oct 6, 2011

Dekker.

Jul 11, 2018 2:36pm
Dyce
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 40 sec ago
Joined: Nov 27, 2011

I like Thornwell a little better than Dekker, but Dekker plays more of a position of need.

I would cut Wes before either one of these guys.

Jul 11, 2018 2:55pm
WindsorUK
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 34 min ago
Joined: Oct 9, 2011

Thornwell has a chance to be a rotational player on a good team. Decker and Williams don’t.

Jul 11, 2018 2:59pm
WindsorUK
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 34 min ago
Joined: Oct 9, 2011

Dyce wrote:

I like Thornwell a little better than Dekker, but Dekker plays more of a position of need.

I would cut Wes before either one of these guys.

I just can’t see ANY scenario where Wes Johnson breaks camp with the team.

He was a bad player when we signed him the first time. A worse player the second time we signed him. And now, somehow, he’s managed to regress even further into uselessness.

Jul 11, 2018 3:30pm
Mistwell
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 25 min ago
Joined: Oct 17, 2011

I was going to say Thornwell and then I compared Dekker and Thornwell at the same age and...well...Dekker is better:

 


 

Jul 11, 2018 3:28pm
WindsorUK
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 34 min ago
Joined: Oct 9, 2011

Dekker just looked really bad last year, as a, what, third year veteran?

I just don’t see Sam fitting in on this team.

Jul 11, 2018 3:33pm
datlbn1p
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 10 min ago
Joined: May 16, 2012

Dekker, still believe in the guy

Jul 11, 2018 3:33pm
Clippers1121
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 41 min ago
Joined: Nov 15, 2011

Not happy with Thornwell or Evans in summer league so far.  Sidarius just has not been playing like a guy who has a year of NBA experience under his belt.  He is playing more like a second round pick coming straight out of college.  That isn't good.  I thought he would be much more at ease with his game by now.  And Evans is still undersized and is struggling even against these summer league players.  Not displaying any type of leadership or ability to be effective even at the summer league level.  So I don't know how it will go for these two guys going forward.  But West is watching the games very closely so I will let him decide who stays and who goes.

 

Jul 11, 2018 3:47pm
trapp76
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: Oct 28, 2011

WindsorUK wrote:

Dyce wrote:

I like Thornwell a little better than Dekker, but Dekker plays more of a position of need.

I would cut Wes before either one of these guys.

I just can’t see ANY scenario where Wes Johnson breaks camp with the team.

He was a bad player when we signed him the first time. A worse player the second time we signed him. And now, somehow, he’s managed to regress even further into uselessness.

He would have to agree to a buyout though I think, unless we stretch him, which would be dumb. I think he stays because of that.

Jul 11, 2018 3:53pm
trapp76
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 5 min ago
Joined: Oct 28, 2011

I would keep Dekker btw. I think he has the most trade value to other teams at the deadline. There are probably some teams that still believe in him.

Jul 11, 2018 4:02pm
mannycoon
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 28 min ago
Joined: Nov 2, 2011

WindsorUK wrote:

Thornwell has a chance to be a rotational player on a good team. Decker and Williams don’t.

Dekker has already had a season where he was a rotational player on a good team.

They are about the same age and Dekker has flaws that are more likely to improve, shooting and smarter defense.  Dekker I think could learn a lot from Luc.

Jul 11, 2018 4:04pm
VFHS
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 19 min ago
Joined: Mar 8, 2013

Thornwell, easily.

Jul 11, 2018 5:51pm
Hitnrun24
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: Dec 6, 2011

If Dekker looks improved in preseason I'd go with him. His position is so valuable if he puts it together and the (very) rough tools are there. I'd wait and see between him and Thornwell. The upside with Evans is so low that he'd be the odd man out in all situations. CJ was a nice surprise, but he got schooled badly at times so I don't think he's good enough to keep over the possible upside of the other guys.

Jul 11, 2018 5:52pm
Dyce
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 40 sec ago
Joined: Nov 27, 2011

trapp76 wrote:

WindsorUK wrote:

Dyce wrote:

I like Thornwell a little better than Dekker, but Dekker plays more of a position of need.

I would cut Wes before either one of these guys.

I just can’t see ANY scenario where Wes Johnson breaks camp with the team.

He was a bad player when we signed him the first time. A worse player the second time we signed him. And now, somehow, he’s managed to regress even further into uselessness.

He would have to agree to a buyout though I think, unless we stretch him, which would be dumb. I think he stays because of that.

Just waive him and eat the full contract. Guy shouldn't be on an NBA roster. 

Jul 11, 2018 6:04pm
Dyce
Offline
Last seen: 59 min 40 sec ago
Joined: Nov 27, 2011

WindsorUK wrote:

Dekker just looked really bad last year, as a, what, third year veteran?

I just don’t see Sam fitting in on this team.

I thought he was playing a little better at the end of the season. His jumper was still bad, but he was cutting more. But honestly, I wouldn't lose any sleep over any of these dudes being cut.

Jul 11, 2018 6:11pm
babyradar01
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
Joined: Nov 27, 2011

Cmon guys this is silly. Thornwell is the choice and I cant believe we are discusssing this.  In a season where we lost gallo and blake dekker couldnt get on the court...and picking dekker b/c he plays a position of need over a player you think is more talented is beyond incomprehensible

Jul 11, 2018 6:21pm
Mistwell
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 25 min ago
Joined: Oct 17, 2011

Stats don't support the eye test though. Dekkers not just better stat-wise, but he's meaningfully better. It can't just be all garbage time either as he was playing much heavier minutes at Houston and was playing in the playoffs. 

Jul 11, 2018 6:26pm
Hitnrun24
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 20 min ago
Joined: Dec 6, 2011

I didn't love Dekker, but Thornwell is certainly not clearly better. He has good grit, but even looking at his good performances in summer league hasn't been that encouraging imo. He seems to be using his strength to score, which at 6'4 good luck with that against non summer league guys. 

Jul 12, 2018 11:41am
ClipperSisyphus
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 15 min ago
Joined: Nov 1, 2011

Mistwell wrote:

Stats don't support the eye test though. Dekkers not just better stat-wise, but he's meaningfully better. It can't just be all garbage time either as he was playing much heavier minutes at Houston and was playing in the playoffs. 

The tall white guy who can supposedly shoot is wildly overrated in this league. I would call it the Searching for the Next Larry Bird syndrome. See Ryan Anderson, Chandler Parsons, Gordon Hayward, Danilo Gallinari, Adam Morrison, etc. Dekker had an 11.5 PER and a .53 TS% in his year 23 season last year. I don't see a reason to keep him on the roster. Toss him and Wes and we are woefully thin in the front court..

Jul 12, 2018 12:29pm
Mistwell
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 25 min ago
Joined: Oct 17, 2011

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

Mistwell wrote:

Stats don't support the eye test though. Dekkers not just better stat-wise, but he's meaningfully better. It can't just be all garbage time either as he was playing much heavier minutes at Houston and was playing in the playoffs. 

The tall white guy who can supposedly shoot is wildly overrated in this league

Yeah I don't give a shit about that racism. In fact I just said the eyetest for me favored Thornwell but it was the OBJECTIVE data which fravored Dekker. 

Quote:
Dekker had an 11.5 PER and a .53 TS% in his year 23 season last year. I don't see a reason to keep him on the roster. 

I compared him and Thornwell. Take a look at Thornwell's numbers at age 22 in comparison to Dekker age 22 (I just noticed there is some issue with that graphic coming through so maybe you didn't see it), and tell me again why you want to keep Thornwell over him? If it's just the eye test, I get it. But numbers-wise, that theory doesn't seem to hold up well. 

dekkerthornwell.jpg

Jul 12, 2018 12:28pm
mannycoon
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 28 min ago
Joined: Nov 2, 2011

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

The tall white guy who can supposedly shoot is wildly overrated in this league. I would call it the Searching for the Next Larry Bird syndrome. See Ryan Anderson, Chandler Parsons, Gordon Hayward, Danilo Gallinari, Adam Morrison, etc. Dekker had an 11.5 PER and a .53 TS% in his year 23 season last year. I don't see a reason to keep him on the roster. Toss him and Wes and we are woefully thin in the front court..

And what exactly did Thornwell do in his age 23 season?

Also lumping Dekker in with those guys because he is white is lazy racism, he's not remotely the same type of player, his game is completely different. Gordon Hayward in that group is bizarre as well. 

Jul 12, 2018 12:47pm
ClipperSisyphus
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 15 min ago
Joined: Nov 1, 2011

My bad. I wasn't advocating keeping Dekker over Thornwell. My point was guys like Dekker are signed/kept for some "potential" that may never materialize. Was my comp group lazy racism? Maybe. But we made a point in another thread that all player comps in the NBA are of people of the same race/skin tone. Even light skinned guys are comped with other light skinned guys (ie, Lonzo is the next Jason Kidd. Why not next Fat Lever?). Explain that?

Jul 12, 2018 4:28pm
tullabye
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 46 min ago
Joined: Nov 11, 2011

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

My bad. I wasn't advocating keeping Dekker over Thornwell. My point was guys like Dekker are signed/kept for some "potential" that may never materialize. Was my comp group lazy racism? Maybe. But we made a point in another thread that all player comps in the NBA are of people of the same race/skin tone. Even light skinned guys are comped with other light skinned guys (ie, Lonzo is the next Jason Kidd. Why not next Fat Lever?). Explain that?

Where are the “ light-skinned” guys on your list? They all look white, not light, to me. I can’t fault them for hoping for a Dirk or Porzi 

Jul 12, 2018 4:32pm
nuraman00
Offline
Last seen: 31 min 11 sec ago
Joined: Oct 6, 2011

I've been saying this for years.  Hayward isn't even a good shooter.  I called him a sour shooter.

 

To me, his best position would be PG.  He has good handles and can drive.  Before Utah got George Hill, I thought he was the Jazz' best playmaker.

 

When it was apparent to me that Trey Burke sucked, I thought Hayward should have shifted to PG and they should have benched or traded Burke.