It's best for the team to move Dj

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#1 May 17, 2017 6:09pm
V-Ice
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It's best for the team to move Dj

And get a couple of good players. But I doubt teams view DJ as an good player because of his offensive woes. 

May 17, 2017 6:19pm
Rhy1244
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V-Ice wrote:

So the year DJ finally makes an all star team marks the time when everyone loses faith in him?

May 17, 2017 6:52pm
Mistwell
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Rhy1244 wrote:

V-Ice wrote:

So the year DJ finally makes an all star team marks the time when everyone loses faith in him?

It's mostly just V-Ice. He's never been a fan and he's just trying on a new "Get rid of DJ" tactic. 

He's literally the only starter on our team to play more than 76 regular season games this year (he played 81, missing just 1 game due to rest per Doc Rivers decision). Since the 2010-11 regular season, he has only missed a total of 7 games. This is the first year he was an all star.

During the 2016-17 season, he led the entire league in field goal percentage (71.4%), while leading the Clippers in rebounds (13.8) and blocks (1.7) per game; he has led the team in these three categories for each of the last three regular seasons. And he has been a reliable contributor at both ends of the floor. 

He averaged 10.1 defensive rebounds (2nd in the league) and 1.7 blocks (9th in the league, and 7th if you include only those with more than 31 games played this year) per game.

He even improved his free throws from last season (43.0%) to this season (48.2%),

No other starter in the league, nobody with his level of production, is even touching 70% shooting from the field. In fact, no player in NBA history other than Jordan has shot 70% from the field in multiple seasons. And this is the third straight season he has achieved such a milestone.

Key Stats: 12.7 points, 13.8 rebounds, and 1.7 blocks in 31.7 minutes per game, shooting 71.4% from the field

Despite all this, V-Ice doesn't like him.

And it's not just that V-Ice doesn't like him.  It's that he is completely incapable of seeing that others do like him.  Despite the fact that almost every fucking team in the entire league would like a guy like DJ on their team, V-Ice literally thinks "But I doubt teams view DJ as an good player because of his offensive woes."  You follow that? Not "Great player", not "All-star" but in V-Ice's mind the rest of the league doesn't even view DJ as a "Good" player. He's doing something for a team THREE YEARS IN A ROW that nobody other than Jordan has ever done for a team, and V-Ice doesn't just think he's not a "good" player but honestly thinks nobody else in the league thinks he's a "good" player. 

V-Ice, I like you man.  But this opinion of yours regarding DJ, it's a shit opinion.  It has no basis in reality.  You have always had some fucked up issues with DJ that you have not been able to get over, and it's fucking time you got over them and dealt with them already.  DJ is a good player.  He's a good center.  There is no question about that.  Of course he could do more.  But then he's done more every season he's been in the league.  But sure, he could do more.  But so could every single player in the game.  Being capable of doing more, wanting more from him, is not the same as him not already being good. 

And if you just can't bring yourself to believe that - at least admit your opinion is not well shared around the league and DJ is in fact valued by a LOT of other teams, including this team. 

May 17, 2017 7:26pm
V-Ice
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I do like Dj, but I feel he can get us a couple of good players in return. We not trading CP3 and BG32. I would like to see a market value for Dj. 

May 17, 2017 7:40pm
Rhy1244
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V-Ice wrote:

I do like Dj, but I feel he can get us a couple of good players in return. We not trading CP3 and BG32. I would like to see a market value for Dj. 

The problem I have isn't that you want to move DJ.  The problem is that you said you doubt other teams view him as a good player.  

May 17, 2017 7:47pm
V-Ice
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^oh ok. I see.. I know I'm wrong and teams do value his play. 

May 17, 2017 8:54pm
V-Ice
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Never mind, he's a year away from free agency and has a 15% trade kicker.

May 18, 2017 3:31am
Dyce
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I feel the Celtics could really use him.

May 18, 2017 7:33am
VFHS
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Crazy that there are people who actually, unironically believe that DJ is a good offensive player. He has a high shooting percentage from the dunks and bunnies that his teammates spoonfeed him. He has no post moves. He has no jump shot. He can't create for himself, he can't create for others. Charles Barkley was spot-on a few years ago when he said that if you locked DJ in an empty gym and told him he couldn't dunk, he'd have six points in the morning.

If you want to see what a center with a good offensive game looks like in today's league, watch Nikola Jokic, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, or Brook Lopez. DJ is so far from that, it's not even funny.

May 18, 2017 7:41am
Griffin5
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VFHS wrote:

Crazy that there are people who actually, unironically believe that DJ is a good offensive player. He has a high shooting percentage from the dunks and bunnies that his teammates spoonfeed him. He has no post moves. He has no jump shot. He can't create for himself, he can't create for others. Charles Barkley was spot-on a few years ago when he said that if you locked DJ in an empty gym and told him he couldn't dunk, he'd have six points in the morning.

If you want to see what a center with a good offensive game looks like in today's league, watch Nikola Jokic, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, or Brook Lopez. DJ is so far from that, it's not even funny.

You can't blame DJ. It's Doc's fault! He brainwashed DJ (and all his teammates too) that he's the defensive ancer and doesn't have to worry about the offensive game. He has the potential to be an offensive tool. Maybe not first scoring option but 2 or 3 if he plays in the right system. Look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUFcmxoGv18 

The fact that he's working on his post game is a good sign. Now we only need a coach and system where he can use all this stuff. 

If we look today (like you said) then yes he has nothing and most of those listed players are better than him offensively. 

May 18, 2017 8:04am
tullabye
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VFHS wrote:

Crazy that there are people who actually, unironically believe that DJ is a good offensive player. He has a high shooting percentage from the dunks and bunnies that his teammates spoonfeed him. He has no post moves. He has no jump shot. He can't create for himself, he can't create for others. Charles Barkley was spot-on a few years ago when he said that if you locked DJ in an empty gym and told him he couldn't dunk, he'd have six points in the morning.

If you want to see what a center with a good offensive game looks like in today's league, watch Nikola Jokic, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, or Brook Lopez. DJ is so far from that, it's not even funny.

And yet none of the guys can even come close to doing what DJ does around the hoop. They can't soar above people, catch everything, know where they are in relationship to the hoop and slam it down from uncanny angles. DJ is a weapon in that regard.

May 18, 2017 8:51am
VFHS
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tullabye wrote:

And yet none of the guys can even come close to doing what DJ does around the hoop. They can't soar above people, catch everything, know where they are in relationship to the hoop and slam it down from uncanny angles. DJ is a weapon in that regard.

Problem with that is, it's all dependent on raw athleticism. You need more than that against playoff defenses that have time to scout and make adjustments and aren't going to give up easy lobs all the time. What's going to happen when DJ starts losing a step? Those other guys I mentioned have skills that can translate to old age. DJ doesn't. That's why it's not enough to just point to the shooting percentage without context. Skills matter and how you get your points matters.

May 18, 2017 8:49am
VFHS
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Griffin5 wrote:

You can't blame DJ. It's Doc's fault! He brainwashed DJ (and all his teammates too) that he's the defensive ancer and doesn't have to worry about the offensive game. He has the potential to be an offensive tool. Maybe not first scoring option but 2 or 3 if he plays in the right system. Look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUFcmxoGv18 

The fact that he's working on his post game is a good sign. Now we only need a coach and system where he can use all this stuff. 

If we look today (like you said) then yes he has nothing and most of those listed players are better than him offensively. 

It's not all Doc's fault (for once). DJ wasn't exactly lighting it up on the offensive end under MDSr or VDN, either. He was dabbling in post moves under Vinny, but they were still very raw and not super effective. He does have a decent hook shot, but he doesn't use it consistently. He's never had a jump shot and he's never been a good enough passer, even as he's drawn double teams.

May 18, 2017 9:57am
tullabye
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VFHS wrote:

tullabye wrote:

And yet none of the guys can even come close to doing what DJ does around the hoop. They can't soar above people, catch everything, know where they are in relationship to the hoop and slam it down from uncanny angles. DJ is a weapon in that regard.

Problem with that is, it's all dependent on raw athleticism. You need more than that against playoff defenses that have time to scout and make adjustments and aren't going to give up easy lobs all the time. What's going to happen when DJ starts losing a step? Those other guys I mentioned have skills that can translate to old age. DJ doesn't. That's why it's not enough to just point to the shooting percentage without context. Skills matter and how you get your points matters.

Agree to an extent. DJ has many years in front of him. He has improved every year and is certainly a valuable piece for any organization. I'm okay trading him for a bunch of pieces but you've got to get a haul for him.

May 18, 2017 10:15am
VFHS
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I'm not sure I agree that DJ has many years in front of him. He's already pushing 30 and has nine seasons' worth of mileage on his body. It's inevitable that his athleticism will start to decline, but he's never done anything to prepare for that moment. Doc shortened DJ's career by telling him to "just be the garbage-man" instead of having him work on the fundamental skills that age well.

I also don't agree that DJ has improved every year. His PPG and RPG this season were exactly the same as they were last year, except he attempted more shots and played more games this season. That's not improvement, it's stagnation at best. He also blocked fewer shots per game this year than he did last year. If you look closely, some of his defensive metrics (DBPM and DWS in particular) have actually declined from Doc's first season with the team. He's gone from getting punked by Horford and Gasol to getting exposed by Mozgov and McGee.

I do agree, though, that selling high on DJ for picks and assets would be the smart move. Most of what he brings to the table can be replicated for cheaper, and one-dimensional centers are nowhere near as valuable in today's league as the type of dynamic two-way wing we've been lacking. But because it's a smart move, Ballmer and Doc won't do it. Like a lot of fans, they're married to this treadmill team and live in fear of any major changes.

May 18, 2017 11:56am
Hitnrun24
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How are all these old school post up players doing lately? It's so hard to succeed there anymore unless you just have mismatched undersized guards on you. DJ is a good offensive player because he does only the efficient things and doesn't need post touches. 

May 18, 2017 12:05pm
ClipperSisyphus
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DJ is the #4 scoring option among the starters. He never had to develop an offensive game outside of catching lobs.

If he went to a lower profile team, became the #2 or #3 scoring option and improved his free throw %, I'm sure he could have fulfilled Dallas' vision of him being a 20/20 guy.

May 18, 2017 1:40pm
trapp76
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

DJ is the #4 scoring option among the starters. He never had to develop an offensive game outside of catching lobs.

If he went to a lower profile team, became the #2 or #3 scoring option and improved his free throw %, I'm sure he could have fulfilled Dallas' vision of him being a 20/20 guy.

What does he average in games where Blake doesn't play?

May 18, 2017 2:23pm
JGlanton
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trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

What does he average in games where Blake doesn't play?

DJ averages 10.5 pts/36 with Blake on the floor, and 16 pts/36 with Blake off the floor.  FG% and rebounding slightly higher without Blake.

May 18, 2017 4:10pm
WindsorUK
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Outside of a sign and trade for Reddick, DJ is the only marketable asset we have( being in that he's an athletic big and a very durable one at that)

Chris and Blake are going nowhere. And keeping these 3 together guarantees another 50 win season and early playoff exit. For some of you, that seems okay. But I'd like to see this franchise take the next step and become a real title contender( something, despite our record, we most assuredly have not been the past few seasons).

Boston winning the draft lottery is a good thing for us, in that  the best 2 or 3 players are all backcourt guys, which means Boston might be 1) looking to move a backcourt piece( see Avery Bradley), and 2) looking to get better up front than Amir Johnson( DJ moves into the paint, Horford moves outside).

We appear, on the surface to be a good trade partner for Danny Ainge. DJ might just help us to a championship  after all......by bringing in more quality pieces to our puzzle.

May 18, 2017 6:31pm
ClipperSisyphus
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WindsorUK wrote:

Outside of a sign and trade for Reddick, DJ is the only marketable asset we have( being in that he's an athletic big and a very durable one at that)

Chris and Blake are going nowhere. And keeping these 3 together guarantees another 50 win season and early playoff exit. For some of you, that seems okay. But I'd like to see this franchise take the next step and become a real title contender( something, despite our record, we most assuredly have not been the past few seasons).

Boston winning the draft lottery is a good thing for us, in that  the best 2 or 3 players are all backcourt guys, which means Boston might be 1) looking to move a backcourt piece( see Avery Bradley), and 2) looking to get better up front than Amir Johnson( DJ moves into the paint, Horford moves outside).

We appear, on the surface to be a good trade partner for Danny Ainge. DJ might just help us to a championship  after all......by bringing in more quality pieces to our puzzle.

Danny Ainge is too smart to be our trade partner! He got Garnett and Allen for scrubs, traded Garnett and Pierce for 4 high draft picks and charged the Clippers a first round pick to hire a coach that wanted to leave anyway. Besides, they don't have enough salary to give back.

May 19, 2017 9:27am
trapp76
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

WindsorUK wrote:

Outside of a sign and trade for Reddick, DJ is the only marketable asset we have( being in that he's an athletic big and a very durable one at that)

Chris and Blake are going nowhere. And keeping these 3 together guarantees another 50 win season and early playoff exit. For some of you, that seems okay. But I'd like to see this franchise take the next step and become a real title contender( something, despite our record, we most assuredly have not been the past few seasons).

Boston winning the draft lottery is a good thing for us, in that  the best 2 or 3 players are all backcourt guys, which means Boston might be 1) looking to move a backcourt piece( see Avery Bradley), and 2) looking to get better up front than Amir Johnson( DJ moves into the paint, Horford moves outside).

We appear, on the surface to be a good trade partner for Danny Ainge. DJ might just help us to a championship  after all......by bringing in more quality pieces to our puzzle.

Danny Ainge is too smart to be our trade partner! He got Garnett and Allen for scrubs, traded Garnett and Pierce for 4 high draft picks and charged the Clippers a first round pick to hire a coach that wanted to leave anyway. Besides, they don't have enough salary to give back.

The pick we gave him for Doc turned out to be trash and we got Austin from him for nothing.

He is a good GM but he hasn't exactly gotten over on us.

May 19, 2017 1:43pm
Mistwell
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trapp76 wrote:

ClipperSisyphus wrote:

WindsorUK wrote:

Outside of a sign and trade for Reddick, DJ is the only marketable asset we have( being in that he's an athletic big and a very durable one at that)

Chris and Blake are going nowhere. And keeping these 3 together guarantees another 50 win season and early playoff exit. For some of you, that seems okay. But I'd like to see this franchise take the next step and become a real title contender( something, despite our record, we most assuredly have not been the past few seasons).

Boston winning the draft lottery is a good thing for us, in that  the best 2 or 3 players are all backcourt guys, which means Boston might be 1) looking to move a backcourt piece( see Avery Bradley), and 2) looking to get better up front than Amir Johnson( DJ moves into the paint, Horford moves outside).

We appear, on the surface to be a good trade partner for Danny Ainge. DJ might just help us to a championship  after all......by bringing in more quality pieces to our puzzle.

Danny Ainge is too smart to be our trade partner! He got Garnett and Allen for scrubs, traded Garnett and Pierce for 4 high draft picks and charged the Clippers a first round pick to hire a coach that wanted to leave anyway. Besides, they don't have enough salary to give back.

The pick we gave him for Doc turned out to be trash and we got Austin from him for nothing.

He is a good GM but he hasn't exactly gotten over on us.

Picks are not trash.  Half this fucking board says they all work out! And if they don't work out, it's the GMs fault.  It's simply not possible that some picks just don't work out even though good GMs think they will. :)

May 21, 2017 8:58am
Jimbo
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Griffin5 wrote:

VFHS wrote:

Crazy that there are people who actually, unironically believe that DJ is a good offensive player. He has a high shooting percentage from the dunks and bunnies that his teammates spoonfeed him. He has no post moves. He has no jump shot. He can't create for himself, he can't create for others. Charles Barkley was spot-on a few years ago when he said that if you locked DJ in an empty gym and told him he couldn't dunk, he'd have six points in the morning.

If you want to see what a center with a good offensive game looks like in today's league, watch Nikola Jokic, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, or Brook Lopez. DJ is so far from that, it's not even funny.

You can't blame DJ. It's Doc's fault! He brainwashed DJ (and all his teammates too) that he's the defensive ancer and doesn't have to worry about the offensive game. He has the potential to be an offensive tool. Maybe not first scoring option but 2 or 3 if he plays in the right system. Look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUFcmxoGv18 

The fact that he's working on his post game is a good sign. Now we only need a coach and system where he can use all this stuff. 

If we look today (like you said) then yes he has nothing and most of those listed players are better than him offensively. 

I agree. We don't need a new center, we need a new coach.

May 21, 2017 9:31am
mannycoon
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ClipperSisyphus wrote:

DJ is the #4 scoring option among the starters. He never had to develop an offensive game outside of catching lobs.

He's an elite offensive rebounder and sets strong picks and screens.  He's an excellent pick and roll player and off the ball player.  He can't really do anything on the ball, but on the ball post play isn't as effective as it used to be and our other two stars are ball dominant players.  Gobert and Jordan were 2nd and 3rd team all-NBA, that style of play has caught for centers these days.

May 21, 2017 4:49pm
Hitnrun24
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I still think DJ is a better player than Gobert. He has more agility to move around the perimeter and to catch lobs. He may coast in the regular season a bit more because of the age difference, but I think the perception that Gobert is better is wrong. His defense is good, but it's also much more exploitable in pick and rolls when he has to guard small players like what Curry did to him running him around in circles.

 

I thought Chris did a lot of damage on him too on switches. As for offense even if Gobert has a few more moves that stuff doesn't really matter.

 

May 21, 2017 5:02pm
Hitnrun24
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On another note for those who want a center with a post game I'd be interested in a theory for why post players are struggling more than ever now. I know the post game is less efficient, but it almost seems like guys like Aldridge who once seemed pretty unstoppable there are no longer that hard to stop. If anything the guys who succeed most in the post are wing players who can take advantage of switches.

May 22, 2017 8:38am
pro100
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Hitnrun24 wrote:

I still think DJ is a better player than Gobert. He has more agility to move around the perimeter and to catch lobs. He may coast in the regular season a bit more because of the age difference, but I think the perception that Gobert is better is wrong. His defense is good, but it's also much more exploitable in pick and rolls when he has to guard small players like what Curry did to him running him around in circles.

 

I thought Chris did a lot of damage on him too on switches. As for offense even if Gobert has a few more moves that stuff doesn't really matter.

 

 

Gobert has more upside imo.. His defense is already on par with DJ's and I feel that he'll be a better offensive player than DJ in a year or two. All DJ had to do was develop a baby five foot hook shot -even if it was only from his left hand-  his scoring averages would be higher and he would be more than just a put back/lob guy on offense

May 22, 2017 11:28am
Hitnrun24
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pro100 wrote:

Hitnrun24 wrote:

I still think DJ is a better player than Gobert. He has more agility to move around the perimeter and to catch lobs. He may coast in the regular season a bit more because of the age difference, but I think the perception that Gobert is better is wrong. His defense is good, but it's also much more exploitable in pick and rolls when he has to guard small players like what Curry did to him running him around in circles.

 

I thought Chris did a lot of damage on him too on switches. As for offense even if Gobert has a few more moves that stuff doesn't really matter.

 

 

Gobert has more upside imo.. His defense is already on par with DJ's and I feel that he'll be a better offensive player than DJ in a year or two. All DJ had to do was develop a baby five foot hook shot -even if it was only from his left hand-  his scoring averages would be higher and he would be more than just a put back/lob guy on offense

 

Agreed Gobert has more upside, but I think his defense is slightly overrated because of how exploitable it can be in the playoffs when teams will tilt matchups more. DJ does have a little bit of a baby hook, but his real problem is his free throw shooting.

 

If he ever got really good at any post move, teams would hack him as soon as the ball got into him so it's pointless anyway since you can hack a guy with the ball at any time of the game. After this many years it's just a limitation you have to live with and plan around and to Doc's credit (on this) he's done that as effectively as you can.

May 23, 2017 12:08am
V-Ice
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Dj and JC to Portland for Ezeli, Aminu and Turner... 

May 23, 2017 11:28am
trapp76
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Market for DJ will be down next year as he will be on last year of his contract.

Guy we need to trade is Blake after we re-sign him to a max deal, if we are going to trade one of our big three, ideally for a star level wing player.